Wordy, I'm going to try to finish this up this time. You said:
...young girls abort the children they are too poor to afford and come out in tears because they are shunned by Christians for being the whores and sluts they were taught to be by the television they watch and the songs they hear on the radio that are allowed to be aired by the conservative, Republican-owned organizations that run the television and radio stations in America!
Real Christians are the ones trying to help these girls! If they are too poor, they can give their babies up for adoption! They aren't shunned by real Christians! I don't know what Christians you have heard say such things about young girls in this situation, but they obviously wouldn't be Christ-led Christians. Yes, the girls are victims, but they are victims of a liberal agenda that tells them this is what they'll do and throws condoms and abortion clinics at them and doesn't believe in real choice. I have to say honestly that it blows my mind that you think Republicans own the media! Then why aren't they for McCain and why does Sarah Palin get so beat up in the news for things like her clothes, her tanning bed, and her daughter's pregnancy? Christian organizations are ones fighting for decency on the air. Liberals are the ones who want all smut labeled as free speech.
You went on to say lots about the moral degradation in our country and I agree with you, but I already told you I think you are wrong about why it happened, so I won't go over all that again. But then you added:
The homosexuals demanded respect just as the unexpected mothers demanded that they be set free of the shame they felt from being shunned by you. 50 years down the road and those rejected individuals have had their demands met just like any other demand is met in America. If there are enough people demanding it, the supply will soon follow. If, in the truest way, we had been as Jesus intended, you would have little to say of abortion and homosexuality because they would have been taught the right way instead of berated for taking the "wrong" path.
I don't think people being berated for taking a wrong path is what has caused rampant immorality and a demand to be accepted as they are. It's just the opposite. The media has been working for a long time to convince us that this is the way things are now and we should accept it, that this is the way most people behave and we are prudes if we don't agree. They teach our children that they expect they will have sex and give them condoms; they tell them that homosexual sex is normal and natural. And for too long Christians allowed it to happen. It's just been in recent years that the moral decline of this country has finally made them stand up and say "Enough is enough!"
Then you asked this question:
Answer my question here: You are arguing against a candidate that supports giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. I am assuming here, and excuse me if I am wrong in doing so (though you will be voting for a candidate that is against illegals), but I am assuming you do not support illegal immigration. Why then, do you support the rights of an unborn child through virtue that God created ALL men equally, but feel that people wishing to enter this country and make their lives better deserve nothing at all?
This is not the same thing at all! No, I do not support ILLEGAL immigration. I don't support illegal anything! I very much support people of all nationalities coming into this country through legal channels. I'm not supporting the rights of an unborn child because all men are created equal; I'm supporting life because the child is a person and no one has the right to take the life of an innocent child. Nor does my non-support of illegal activity mean I don't think those people are created equal. I don't support burglary, either, but it has nothing to do with thinking the burglar is not equal to me.
And to summarize your next several paragraphs, you said:
We live in a country that is demanding change, but you sit on your traditions and stomp your feet in stubborness at the proposition - not because you are interested in what is best for the country (though I'm sure you use this guise as well) but because you are cemented in your belief system despite the harm and destruction it has caused and would continue to cause if you got your way.....and you are still so very wrong about your views on what is good for America.....Do you, with all your heart and soul, believe that this white-haired old man knows ANYTHING about today's youth and what will benefit their future?...while Obama has EVERYTHING to prove because he has been in this just long enough to show potential for presidency.
Ironically, I want change, too. I'm not at all happy with the direction of this country, but Obama is sure to keep it going into the same downward spiral. I KNOW what is best for this country and that is for it to get on its knees, pray, seek God's will, and turn from our immorality - just as God told us to - and THEN He said He would heal the land. But no, we want to do the very things He said He would destroy a nation for, killing the most innocent and reveling in homosexual immorality. It's the liberals who are destroying this country because they want to push God away and ignore Him. What does a white-haired old man knowing anything about today's youth have to do with returning this country to its Christian roots?? I know Obama certainly knows nothing about that! You want a president just because he has everything to prove?? But what will he prove?? Just as his own running mate said, we don't need a president who's learning the job by on-the-job training! And, no, to be honest with you, I think the youth are too immature to know what is best for this country! That is, unless they spend time in their Bibles, which is where God says He'll give them wisdom.
You said:
Come, my friend, and live in the streets for a single day with those that you shun and your heart will change! I gaurantee it!
I don't know who you think I'm shunning. I shun an agenda that seeks to destroy this country. I shun Obama and everything he stands for. I don't think I could live in the streets with him. But I have often visited people in prisons; I have often sat with elderly and disabled; I have spent time and been friends with the people you call whores and sluts, but I've never called them that! So, no, I don't think my heart will change much. I already see them as the victims and I am doing my best in my little corner to change the direction of this country and to tell people there is only one Savior for whatever ails them, and his name is not Obama! And voting for someone who stands for the exact opposite of everything our Savior stands for will get us exactly what you stated here:
You reap what you sow.
That's EXACTLY why I am trying to show Christians why they are deceived believing they can vote for Obama and not reap the consequences God promised so long ago! And I just believe that a true Bible-believing Christian who follows Christ and stays in His Word can see that! I believe it's only the new-age "God is who I want Him to be, not who He said He was" so-called Christian who can vote for him and believe he is doing right. But he is just being wise in his own eyes and being of the world and that leads to destruction.
Yes, we may get Obama, as you said in your last paragraph that I decided not to print here, because this country has lost its way. It has turned the other way and ignored 46,000,000 million murders of the most innocent. God says the blood of the innocent cry out to Him and He will repay. He told us specifically to use Sodom and Gomorrah as an example should we find ourselves in that immorality. So yes, we may very well get Obama because we must reap what we have sown and he'll get us there quicker! I just pray for mercy!
6 comments:
So, in your opinion, what is better for this nation... A slow death or a quick one?
AMEN! It's the exact question I have asked! But in answer, we HAVE to stand for God's laws, even when we become greatly outnumbered. There's a scripture in Ezekiel where God wants the foreheads marked of the people who sigh and cry over the evil they see around them. We are supposed to love good and hate evil.
So if America chooses McCain in a land-slide election, despite the fact that he will continue giving huge tax cuts to businesses and the rich, raising taxes for the middle class, continue to oppose alternative and renewable energy proposals, go through with his plan to tax health benefits, continue to support privatizing Social Security which would in effect depend on our currently failing stock market to survive, and don't even get me started on the list of things that veterans won't have... despite all of this; all of these policies that we as a country have in place or will have in place, and we're falling and falling fast... in fact, the only reason we're still standing is because of GOOD policies put in place years ago. We've been fortunate in that we have built ourselves up to this point so that despite our failed policies we can all continue to stand together. Despite these failing policies and expansive national debt you feel that it is justified to let the nation continue to fall down to nothing, with no change what-so-ever, until we've been soaked dry?
You're telling me that this is a good idea because of your shameless moral standing? I am supposed to keep reading my Bible and watch this country fall flat out, prone before the same people and policies we've been dealing with over and over again?
To tell you the truth, I don't care if he does show "anti-christ" attributes, or if he has mingled with marxists, socialists and communists... I don't care if he's smoked marijuana before and snorted a few lines of cocaine. I don't care if his personal opinion is that abortion should be legal, nor do I care if he thinks homosexuals should have the right to be how they are and be married. These are the few problems I see among the many policies that he is seeking out that are exactly what our country needs in order to begin moving forward again and stop trudging along in these trenches of unclear wars, allowing the real enemies to rebuild and refocus their goals.
Bush and McCain both are too caught up with their oil to realize what they're doing to the nation. Notice that Bush sold 40% of his oil stocks just before they began to drop real hard? You think any lawyer on this planet has the balls to take him down in court? I doubt it, but he did it and for some reason everyone is okay with that.
We can get caught up in these particulars, and Biblical reasons why you wouldn't want to vote for a democrat but the bottom line remains the same: If you vote for McCain, every policy that makes you have less money ever year and gives coporations and the rich more money every year, will continue to do so. You are guaranteed that you will continue to be taxed heavily, environmental vehicles will continue to be opposed, and our country will continue to fall into a decline until we force change.
You think the homosexuals and abortion clinics are so terrible and wonder how this nation can support it so openly? I wonder what you'll be thinking when you see rioting in the streets, murder in plain daylight, constant paranoia because the crime-rate has risen beyond what our already exhausted army can handle, rape will be just another way of life, and homosexuality will be rampant upon the nation because when those twigs we call policies snap under the weight of this failing economy that Hell that you're so scared of meeting and beg God for mercy not to see, will come pounding on your door and kick it in with little remorse for your religious views or social preferences.
This is the inevitable result of our nation if we can not turn ourselves from these rediculous ideas that promote the thought of wealth and power but only help the wealthy and powerful. In fact, the intention of these policies is to help the wealthy and powerful because they think that the money flows down and helps everyone - so in their eyes everything is just dandy!
They Are Wrong.
Even if Obama is all these terrible things that you say... and I do know that you believe that they are true; this country has to have a definitive change of policies or it will continue its nose-dive to destruction. I'm willing to take a chance on someone with new ideas and new ways of thinking relentless of his moral viewpoint because that is HIS moral views and not MINE to discern or ridicule.
We all know for sure that what we're doing now isn't working and won't start working no matter how many happy smiles we put on at church every Sunday morning and no matter how many times we punish our children for their mislead ways.
You will see, SeekYeTruth, that God's form of mercy is not continuity of life and freedom of speech, but the continuity of spirit and freedom from this Earth.
So while we're on Earth, planning to continue living, it makes sense that we do our best to see to it that everyone, namely the poor, has a chance to be free to make their own choices just as much as we are free to choose to believe all of the Bible without being opposed by our government.
If McCain wins, America will continue to be America but that war outside will, as all wars do, turn to war within... and if our nation has fallen to pieces then we will crush ourselves in the weight of incompetence.
We are a nation that already depends on the government to supply our protection, our social services, our roads, our building codes, our food administration, our internal security, our bankruptcy, and our medical care... You argue that democracy takes away our freedom and self-reliance... But anyone that makes less than $100,000 dollars a year has to apply for loans to get a house, grants to go to school, leases to get a car... the list goes on. The cost of living in this nation demands that we depend on external sources just so that we can live comfortably in a home that won't fall apart around us.
The Earth that we have our homes built on is taxed even! But if I were making millions a year, that very ground that I can actually afford to pay for costs less, and those taxes I have to pay at the end of the year are getting a break.
All of these little things that make living in America possible are linked to the rich Americas that are getting breaks on everything they do. So the poor are paying the government and the corporations both at the same time. In effect, this poor family becomes more and more in debt. In their ignorance, they allow it to happen and eventually are thrown to the street by the very people they have been paying rediculous fees.
According to the government, this is all perfectly fine. The family may have paid double the price they original agreed upon but due to interest they were still in debt. So they get to live on the street, or with their other family until they figure something else out.
This seems, to a person that has been taught to always fend for themselves and never give up, to be an unlikely scenario but really it is a daily event that happens to people that believe the same things you do, but never had the money to be educated on it.
Is this right? No. Is this Godly? No. Is this moral? No. Is this legal? Yes, and not only that, it is enforced.
It IS time for a change, Seek. Out with the old and in with the new. Even if he is an immoral, lying, communist; McCain is an immoral, lying, Republican - God will lead this country where He wills it despite who we choose but if we choose McCain we will perish as a country until he and his tired policies are permanently removed. If Obama comes in, with his new ideas and his optimistic outlook, we may not be the upstanding country you want to imagine us, but really... if you would do yourself a favor and step out of the Bible belt for a few years, it's really not the Godly, conservative country that you want it to be. In truth, if you knew it for what it was and not what the Bible says it is, Obama would be a big step up.
I'm getting a little tired of this conversation. I don't want to keep beating a dead horse. If you really want to discuss an issue, okay, but to just keep ranting against conservatism, well, I guess we'll have to agree that we don't agree and leave it at that. But I'll try to answer once more, because yes, no matter what you say, you cannot give me a scenario where I would change my opinion. Your problem is that you see a problem, but you don't understand why the problem exists. You have been drinking the liberal kool-aid, so to speak, and I understand it is so easy to do when the media is so liberally biased that this is what they tell you all day and night. That's why I choose to stay with the giver of wisdom. He makes things pretty easy to understand and when you see prophecy unfolding before your eyes, you learn not to doubt Him one bit! This is not about conservatism versus liberalism. It's not about right versus left; it's simply right versus wrong!
I was just saying last night how freeing it is to have such confidence that I know exactly who to vote for and I won't make a mistake!! I knew someone who voted for Clinton, and then later regretted it and said had made a terrible mistake. Someone else I knew didn't know until in the voting booth whether would vote for Kerry or Bush because of agonizing over the issue so. I voted for Bush and although I am not happy with a lot of things he has done, I know I didn't make a mistake, and I'd do it in a heartbeat again if given the same choices! If things go bad under McCain (but it WON'T be for the reasons you say), then that is us reaping what we have sown to date, but it won't mean I made a mistake by voting for him. There is power and freedom and peace in that kind of confidence! And it only comes from one place! The people who are agonizing are trying to rationalize going against what they know is right; otherwise there would be no agonizing. It's a pretty easy decision, really. Just about every single stand Obama takes is anti-Biblical. One of the things God hates most is the shedding of innocent blood and child sacrifice. People who can't see that abortion is sacrificing life for convenience don't want to see it! God calls homosexuality an abomination. Hate Crimes is a joke and nothing but thought police and who gets to judge what you are thinking??? Take for instance two days ago the hanging effigy of Sarah Palin that was called Halloween fun, but then yesterday's hanging of the Obama effigy was a serious hate crime! Hate crimes, fairness doctrine, employment discrimination act, internet policing, are all about the same thing - silencing free speech, but not all free speech, just Christian speech, just any opposing speech to immoral anti-Biblical behavior. They talk about choice and tolerance, but there is no choice or tolerance unless you choose what they deem tolerable. Rights for illegals over and above rights for law-abiding citizens is wrong! The Bible said to love the alien and this country has traditionally loved the alien. Our ancestors were all aliens unless they were Native Americans! But in the Bible aliens were assimilated into the culture and accepted their new country's ways. They came through a process and were accepted. The environmentalists have decided they know better than God's natural plan for things and are destroying us! Wildfires burn out of control because there is no longer a natural thinning that takes place and creates firebreaks when forests are "protected". We burn food for fuel driving food prices out the roof. We can't drill in a "pristine" vast wasteland in Alaska that even the Alaskans want us to drill, driving us to be dependent on foreign oil. We save the trees and the endangered species but we kill the babies. We criminalize starving an animal but we starve brain-injured people under the pretense of another of those lovely "choices", the "choice to die"! We wouldn't allow the starving of puppies but we can let a baby born alive after a failed abortion starve slowly to death. The warped left wants to kill the innocent but save the death row murderers. It is exactly as God pegged it thousands of years ago - they will call evil good and will call good evil.
Yes, greed can cause some of the ills of our country, but if you don't think all of the above are guilty of greed, including your precious Obama, then you are either a bit touched or very definitely blinded. But the real reason behind all of our troubles is godlessness! And when you are greedy, you are godless. Jesus said either you will serve the Lord or you will serve money; you cannot do both. Obama sits there on his high throne telling us we all need to serve more, and he has a brother living in the poorest of poor third-world poverty and an aunt living in US first-world poverty. He is a millionaire who cannot help his own family! Completely godless! That's on top of every single bad policy he stands for!!
You don't even know what you are talking about when you talk about how McCain will raise taxes on the middle class and give huge tax cuts to the rich. I get so sick of that inane babble. McCain wants to lower taxes for ALL. The rich will get more cuts because they pay soooo much more of the taxes!!! That's all!! If you pay $2000 in taxes and get a 50% break of $1000, it can't compare to someone's 50% break when he pays $200,000. That's all it is!! It's like when I hear statistics that show Texas the worst in something when I know it's because Texas is the biggest and has the most competing in that stat. You can't compare Rhode Island to Texas and you can't compare a huge oil company's taxes to your own! But they can say it and people will buy it without looking deeper and truly understanding. Obama's socialistic ideas of making those who make more pay an even larger portion will kill small and middle income businesses. Socialism HAS NEVER WORKED, NO, NOT EVER IN HISTORY! Why do you think it will work now????
Yes, you had better get on your knees and start reading that Bible unless you want to stay deceived! The ONLY reason we are in the shape we are in is because we have pushed God out of the picture. This country was founded on God's laws and it has been blessed, but as always, since the beginning of time with Satan in the garden of Eden, people have to start questioning God (Did God really say that?), they think they can be as gods and can know better, that they don't have to believe His word but they'll not die, and that thinking always leads to death and destruction, simple as that. You don't have to use your "higher thinking" or your feelings or any of your human emotion; you can just accept fact as it was prophesied thousands of years ago and you can accept God's Word and His guide for you life. You SHOULD care about whether someone is a Marxist and probably a Muslim, and who surrounds himself with terrorists and white-haters and Jew-haters, and who stands for every immoral and godless behavior known to man!! How do you trust someone like that??? Do you really believe he will do as he says?? His few votes in the senate so far already completely contradict what he says he will do. The man shows us time and time again he has no character, he has no integrity, he can be bought by anyone, but you don't care!! Well, that doesn't say a lot for you, I'm afraid!
I've got news for you! I am already what our government would call poor. My husband has been ill and become disabled in a couple of different ways. We have been struggling to remodel a house to make a home and can't afford to finish it yet. I swear on my life that if Obama guaranteed me my new house if I voted for him (but why would I believe someone of such low character anyway?), but if I was guaranteed money and my house if I voted for Obama, and guaranteed NO HOUSE and a continued struggle with money, I would never turn my back on God's moral laws and innocent life and freedom for selfish gain! That's another huge problem with what Obama offers! Not only is it flawed and will never work anyway, but God says to seek Him first and He will take care of our needs. And He does! Every Christian tither knows he doesn't have to worry about money. We may not get everything our heart desires, but we get everything we need. If we look to some person to be a savior and for personal gain, when it means ignoring God and His laws, then those are idols!
Yes, the scenario you set forth will indeed happen; I can show it to you in Bible prophecy! But it is because we have rejected God! Yes, we need change! And we need it quickly!! If we will do as God says, seek Him and pray and turn from our wicked ways, HE will heal our land. But that is the ONLY way! Anyone looking to a Godless MAN to do it will be sorely disappointed. I am not saying that McCain will save us. He will not!! I am not voting for him to save us! I am voting AGAINST a godless man who stands for everything God hates! And since it seems the courts make all the laws anymore, trampling laws voted by people and enacted by the legislators, then the type of justices Obama will put in the courts is of the utmost importance to me!! Why on earth would you trust the judgment of someone with such low character and morals??? Oh, but you said that doesn't matter to you! So just anything goes?? Well, not to me! Not when it will mean homosexual marriage throughout the land, but it doesn't stop there. This has never been about a few homosexuals pretending they are really married. Once it's law, then kindergarteners are taught about homosexuality (it's happening now!), pastors can no longer speak from the Bible if it contradicts the law, and Christian daycare centers have to hire homosexuals. Laws do matter!! Morals do matter! And without them, you will indeed see the scenario you laid out!
If you think you will have freedom and continuity of spirit by doing the opposite of what God said in His word, then you are following the wrong spirit, my friend.
It's our own greed that demands we depend on our government for loans and such! It's when we want more than we can afford!! In my household, we pay cash for our used vehicles and we are paying for our house as we go. We were blessed to have paid off all our credit cards and will do our best never to be in debt again. Once again, I look to someone much more dependable than our government for my needs! No, I agree we do not have a good system, but the kind of change you seek will destroy us for certain, no doubt about it, because I know the source of truth and He has already told me that in His word, so I don't think I'll be buying your explanation. It's not out with the old and in with the new; it's time to go back to the old tried and true! And besides, I get a kick out of everyone who wants CHANGE, like the alternative is voting for Bush again as the same. McCain will be a change and Sarah Palin is certainly good change, and she could perhaps be in line to be the first woman president in 4 years, a Christian woman with great integrity. Now that's the change I would like to see - not the fresh faced fuhrer with the socialist experiment that is an old idea that has already failed!!
I am sorry to hear about your husband and financial situation. It sounds like you are taking the right steps, though.
You have no need to tire of our conversation. It is that and only that. I'm going to try and slow down the conversation a bit so it's not so... taxing.
I feel that this country has a very real need of an open-minded, fresh face that is ready to try some new things to see if they work.
You do make Obama sound like a terrible demon man, but if you ignore the Republican translation of what he says, his words are not so horrifically left as you say.
I guess what I'm saying is, with all the conviction you have in your words and the obvious truth you speak about the Bible... I don't believe you. I haven't been able to find any fact-based information about him wanting children to just lay on a table and die - His statements about late-term partial birth abortion were related to making sure the mother was protected physically so as not to lose them both, not to insure that it is possible to happen. He goes on to make it very clear that his concern is that women will resort to aborting their child in unsafe ways if there is not a way to do it legally, and it is better that they have a way to do it safely than to endanger themselves. It may be selfish of the mother, but not of Obama. I know; you don't have to say it - you disagree, but the question is: is it right for the government to allow women to endanger themselves based on a moral belief that not everyone shares? Those that do not believe it will not have the abortion and will not teach their children to do it. It's your choice.
Nor have I seen anything fact-based about him supporting full-on homosexual marriage. If you would pay a bit more attention to what he has done and what he said, you will notice that he has supported the ability to share insurance stipulations, ownership, and social security benefits, and the ability to make hospital visits with someone that they love. He does not see a need for the bond of marriage to be changed but for the presence of a civil union to be a stronger entity in the government's eyes.
Seeing as how I'm sure you disagree with any sort of civil union involving sex... I guess my point is falling on deaf ears, but I believe a President that assumes that everyone is of his own mind is an ignorant one destined to fail or destroy.
I don't believe a candidate's moral standing should be considered for Presidency any more than my moral standing should be considered for my job. If I have no criminal history and am capable, then hire me on. Obama has made it very clear, I believe, in the words he has spoken that he doesn't believe morally in a lot of the things that his actions are being viewed as "supporting the issue". He is looking to be the best President, not the best at making sure America becomes more Godly.
I guess to some, the goals are one in the same, but just as history shows that Socialism is a failure, so has history showed that religion and government fail as well and just as horribly.
In the end, maybe his ideas and goals will fail miserably and the country will fall to nothing. At least then we can begin the rebuilding process instead of watching the rich slowly sap our resources and confuse us into thinking that's why the government is there.
If that does happen, at least he tried, instead of allowing President after President milk our economy to nothing.
Thanks for the slower response. I can make this pretty simple. You just aren't listening or looking at his voting record.
There is absolutely NO argument for his THREE votes when worded three different ways for denying care to a baby born alive after a botched abortion. What on earth does this have to do with the health of the mother??? The mother can be treated and the baby can be treated as it is already out of the womb, but he voted against it. It gets no worse than this!
Right out of his own mouth he said he would repeal all the state DOMA's. That means no state has the right to protect marriage as they see fit. What else can that mean? You are blind if you do not see it. I heard a new acronym the other day - ABETTO - A blind eye to the obvious, and Obama supporters have it. But it may not be your fault, but that is the truly scary part, if you ask me. We know this is a spiritual battle. If you believe the Bible, you know we are always in a spiritual battle, and never in our history has a candidate been so worshipped and spoken of in messianic terms. You are either deceived or your eyes have been blinded because God intends to give us what we deserve. And to do so your eyes have to be blinded, because to any Jesus-as-Lord Christian, it is so OBVIOUS what he is!!!
Don't you get it? It's not that only godly men can be President, BUT ungodly men can't be trusted!! Why would we want them???? It was interesting to note that Saddam Hussein only let Christians do his cooking and some of the more personal tasks for him, because he knew he could trust them not to try to kill him!!!! Even he knew better than the blinded people in this country!!! Immoral men of no integrity only care about themselves and will corrupt. Of course, morality is important!! Why on earth would you trust a liar and a cheater and someone who would kill innocent babies?? It defies logic and that's why I know it's spiritual.
NO country that has turned its back on God has ever prospered. At least not for long. Perhaps the only reason we have prospered as long as we have is that we are a friend to Israel and God said He would bless those who bless Israel. But Obama said again in his own words that he would stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift. And just today is the news that he made a secret agreement with the Palestinians to give them Israel when he is President. So frankly, if Obama becomes President and this experiment fails, I doubt we have another chance! People are becoming too flippant about the things of God and we will reap what we sow, and I just pray you take these things to heart and pray and get into God's Word before it's too late because we are very near the end if Obama becomes President, and it is looking like that is likely, and I just can't believe this country can be so bad. I know it's spiritual blindness; they know not what they do.
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